18 Comments

  1. Dr. Ed
    WUWT just put up an article by Dr. Spencer about declining CO2 sink rates. (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/08/15/enso-impact-on-the-declining-co2-sink-rate/)
    I have not had time to follow the links to Dr. Spenser’s paper but I think it is based on accepting the assumption that all the recent increase is human caused. I would really appreciate your take on it. When I previously commented on his earlier article my explanation of your work was rejected but never rebutted.

  2. Dear DMA,
    Thank you for the notice. I downloaded Spencer’s pdf and read it.

    His Eq (1) is the continuity equation: The rate of change of level equals the inflow E(t) minus the outflow S(t). We can neglect his third term with the beta coefficient for this discussion.

    The idea that S(t) = ks [ CO2 (t) – CO2eq] equals outflow has no physical basis. So, his Eq (2) is simply wrong.

    CO2eq is a consequence of the condition where outflow equals inflow and outflow. But outflow is not a direct function of CO2eq.

    Then he does meaningless curve fits. His conclusions are invalid because his physics is invalid.

    You are correct that he incorrectly assumes human CO2 causes all the CO2 increase above 280 ppm. He compares the CO2 level for both nature and human inflows, but he uses only the human CO2 inflow. He has not separated the natural and human CO2 flows and levels as he should have done.

    He should reference my 2021 paper because it shows the physics needed for his paper.

    I put this comment on WUWT.

    1. “The idea that S(t) = ks [ CO2 (t) – CO2eq] equals outflow has no physical basis.”
      Isn’t this similar to Salby’s review of the Kohler equation that had sinks still taking out Co2 after there was nonr left? This looks to me like it is saying when the excess above equilibrium reaches the equilibrium amount sinks stop altogether. I think past concentrations of 5000 PPM would have to invalidate that .
      By the way THANKS for responding. It will be interesting to see what goes on at WUWT.

      1. Dear DMA,

        Similar. In Kohler’s critique of Harde, Kohler referenced an equation by Cawley who had such an equation.

        Spencer’s (2) says outflow is zero when the level is at equilibrium. That does not work. There will still be an outflow, but it will equal the inflow. The CO2eq does not belong in (2).

  3. You look at C12 and C14. Do you have any comment on the C12/C13 isotope ratio that some activists use as “evidence” to “prove” that most of the CO2 increase is anthropogenic? I have never bought into that hypothesis but haven’t been able to find where that argument fails (haven’t looked that hard at it to be honest).

  4. Well I did not think I would initiate this much response. Thank you Dr. Ed for defending your work. I do hope that someone like Happer or Lindzen will really dig into your paper. I don’t think it will be refuted but if it is we will have learned more than we know now. If they can’t refute it they need to let the world know. I haven’t found any of the critiques convincing yet. Coincidentally I wrote to CO2 Coalition just last week to get their thoughts and Greg said they disagreed but would not give me any reasons. Keep making the commenters look at the paper. So many go off on tangents that the paper does not address. The most common problem with many of their comments is assuming nature is constant.

  5. Hi Ed,

    Are you aware that none of the links to your 2021 publication work?

    Hopefully you can fix this as I’d love to share it with some people.

    Also, you should consider joining Twitter as you can reach a wide audience easily there.

    Best regards,

    Jack

  6. Ed

    I sure wouldn’t want to hire you as my accountant. You fail at basic double-entry accounting.

    You say: “IPCC’s data show the inflow of human CO2 into the atmosphere is about 5% of the total CO2 inflow and natural CO2 is about 95%. ”

    You don’t spell out what the ‘natural’ is. From your first diagram I assume you are adding inflows from land and surface ocean so 108 + 60.4 = 168.4. Human inflow is 7.8.

    7.8/168.4 = 0.046

    So roughly 5%

    Now lets look at the other flows. Outflows!

    Outflows to land and surface oceans: 108 + 60.4 = 168.4. Human outflows: 0

    0%

    Now lets look at net flows

    Net natural flows – Land Atmosphere Surface Ocean are

    (108 + 60.4) – (108 + 60.4) = 0

    Net human flows are (7.8 + 0) = 7.8

    If the system is unperturbed, net flow changes to the atmosphere from all other sources are 7.8, all human derived.

    That is that pesky double-entry accounting thing.

    But the system is not unperturbed. Your second diagram shows changes to the flows Land Atmosphere Surface Ocean.

    But your fig 2 doesn’t add up.

    Net flow, LandAtmosphere is +1.4 inflow to the land, but the change in the land reservoir is -30?

    Net flow, Atmosphere Surface ocean is +2.3 inflow to the Surface ocean of 2.3. but the change in the Surface Ocean reservoir is 0?

    And the net flow to the Deep Ocean is zero, but it’s reservoir increases by 155?

    Might I suggest that the 155 reservoir change figure for the Deep Oceans should actually be the Surface Oceans. Not just from a mathematical analysis, but from oceanography. Flows of anything dissolved in the ocean, between the surface and the deeps, are very, very slow. Timescales of many centuries or more. So much so that, to a 1st order analysis, you can ignore the deep oceans.

    So if we allocate the 155 to the surface ocean instead, the part of the ocean in gas exchange with the atmosphere, we get a net atmospheric balance, +7.8 human into the atmosphere, -3.7 out of the atmosphere.

    Human net inflow is perturbing the atmosphere, but natural net outflow change as a response is partly compensating.

    Atmospheric change is actually 200% due to human actions. Just Mother Nature compensates for part of that.

    1. Dear Glenn,
      Thank you for your comment. It helps me explain things better in my future work… and this post relates to my 2021 paper. I think I improved my explanation in my 2023 paper.

      Here, my Figures 1 and 2 are not my data. These figures are IPCC’s data. Figure 1 is IPCC’s natural carbon cycle that it assumes is at equilibrium and constant. Figure 2 is IPCC’s (claimed but false) human carbon cycle that does not balance, and it does not use the same physics as IPCC’s natural carbon cycle.
      You are correctly pointing out the errors in IPCC’s data.

      As my papers show, we can and should treat the natural and human carbon cycles independently, then add them up to get a total carbon cycle. So, what I did (as I explain in my 2021 paper) is to use IPCC’s natural carbon cycle, which is at equilibrium, to calculat the Te for each natural node. Then I calculate IPCC’s TRUE carbon cycle using the same Te. My paper shows all the math to do this.

      My calculations show IPCC’s TRUE human carbon cycle, which follows the same physics as IPCC’s natural carbon cycle, does not cause all the CO2 increase. This means natural CO2 had to cause most of the CO2 increase above 280 ppm according to IPCC’s own data.

      If you click on the link at the top of this post – Click here to read Ed Berry’s 2023 paper and debate – you can read my subsequent explanations that I think are better than this post.

      Thank you again, Ed

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